A Transparent Career Interview with David Jeong

Jeong: [00:00:00] Yeah. So I saw when I was in college, uh, I was a mechanical engineer or not a mechanical engineer, but I was like thinking of studying mechanical engineering. um, when I went in, um, some thoughts about like physics or stuff like that. um, yeah, but I think that just at one point I just realized I like using machines to make stuff and whatnot.

Like it was not, not very exciting to me. uh, it just, I don't know, didn't give me like the control, um, that I needed. Like, I don't know if you've ever worked with like, like very non-digital art or things like that, but like, um, yeah, it's pretty brutal because like the real world, there's so many actual other [00:01:00] factors.

Um, so when you do like calculations and like predictions, um, it's not like digitized things where like, if you did the calculation correct that should be good. um, with mechanical engineering it was like, you did the calculations and it would still break. um, because you actually need to learn about like- you actually need to take like 18 more courses to learn what's actually going on. um, because like there's little particles in the air or whatnot. um, um, so I don't know. I just like, didn't like the fact that it was like pretty inconsistent and it was also, um, like waiting in line to use things. Yeah. That was pretty brutal. um, but anyways, like, CS was one of the required courses.

Um, yeah, thankfully I just had to take it, so I was taking it and then I just had an idea like, [00:02:00] oh, maybe this is something like I could do. um, like admittedly, it was never , oh yeah, like this is it. You know, like, um, it was just like something that I could do. So I decided to like pivot and change into that direction. the workload, um, workload or rather like the number of courses you have to take was not a lot to switch, um, for CS. um, uh, so I just like decided to do that. And then by the time I was like entering like my late junior, senior year. um, yeah, I had no idea what I was doing, but I think, um, like I was applying to like internships and stuff.

But I was relatively like, so much less knowledgeable than some of my peers were. Like, I didn't know, like what area of [00:03:00] specialization I wanted to go into. I actually didn't even know what those areas really meant. um, whether it was like, yeah. Backend or database or, yeah. um, so I applied to ESPN. uh, my cousin told me to apply and I was applying for the Android internship, I think.

Um, but they were like, oh, like we have like a spot open the iOS team. Would you be interested in like trying to do that? um, I somehow got in. um, I talked to my boss, I'm very close to, to the boss that hired me to this. um, I talked to them about it and it was, like, I just told him, like, "I don't know how you accepted me" because like, I remember that interview and like the things we talked about and I'm like, I wouldn't accept me.

Um, so it took a big shot. [00:04:00] um, so I went there and they were like, for the first several weeks, they were like, "Hey, just learn things on your own. And then like take online lessons on iOS and stuff." Um, so I was like, um, so I took like three weeks to do it, like tutorials at work, and then it just kind of started from there. Um, but, uh, yeah, from that point on, you know, in terms of like skill wise and knowledge and just natural growth from doing the work. um, but career wise, I made some active decisions. Like, I really wanted- I think I said this during the panel- like, I wanted to ensure that I like test out like different environments and companies before figuring out what I like.

Um, I wanted to, like, I wanted to know myself better in a way that like, every [00:05:00] time I pick the next job, uh, or at least like after, into my initial trial, um, like my first three companies or so, after that, I would just hone it down more and more. So, um, so actually with this job that I currently have, so I came from Lyft right before this. Right. um, and I'm currently working at a company called RO. Uh, I felt like I was really confident in what I wanted to be. So going from Lyft, RO I only applied to row and I told RO that I was only applying to them and it was either staying at Lyft or just going to RO. So, um, like I wasn't really like shopping around that much anymore.

Jeong: I think I did. You know, um, it is exactly— not exactly, but it is, you know, very, [00:06:00] very close to like what I had anticipated. um, like I can't see myself, like trying to just apply for companies that I like don't know things about. Like, it's really hard for me to imagine now that I would like go into a company where I had never heard or, or even like a big company where I like don't even have like people there who can tell me about what's going on, like what it's like being there. Um, I just don't see myself like doing that anymore.

Jeong: Yeah. I think especially if they were like concerned, with stuff along the lines of like, truly, like, can you shape like the decision-making, um, whether it's ethically or if it's just culturally, [00:08:00] um, yeah, I'm inclined to say like, probably those big companies are maybe not the place.

Um, like, um, like by going to Lyft, I wanted, like, I just gave myself a shot to try it. um, but out of the three companies that I wanted to experiment with going in, I had already known I had the highest odds of failure- failure in the sense that like, uh, um, not, not in the sense of, like, I wouldn't like learn technical things or like whatnot, but in terms of like how happy I was, um, what I'm doing, how the company approaches their business and like their interactions with the workers.

Yeah. I was like there one year- I actually didn't last a year. I actually only lasted 11 months, but, um, [00:09:00] yeah, my time I left, I was like, uh, I was pretty bad. I'm actually an extremely, extremely positive person. Um, but I for the first time in my life, I felt like a consistent state of being down for a little while.

Um, so like at smaller companies, um, you just get to influence more on like little decision-makings. You can be more involved in like the bigger process. um, but at bigger companies a lot of that is stripped away from you. um, and like to be just blunt about things like, you know, a lot of people are there at big companies because [00:10:00]

Jeong: Yeah, big companies because, um, yeah, to be blunt, like people chase the name, obviously. uh, um, but honestly, like that's really about it. Like a lot of like these like medium-sized companies that are like on the come up, they oftentimes offer very comparably in terms of like compensation, um, with these bigger companies. But like a lot of like these top talents still opt not to go because I don't know, like they just want to be there, I guess.

Um, yeah. um, so that, that's really interesting to me. uh, like I can't even, [00:11:00] uh, I can't even imagine what they're thinking about day-to-day like in regards to their job, because it's... so it, okay. Here. Here's what I think. Like, I can't even imagine what some of my friends are going through because they seem to be more attached to their jobs than I am. I'm talking about like the ones that are at bigger companies, like they identify much more with their roles and their jobs, um, they identify much more with their company. um, but at the same time, I wonder how that's possible because the company is so big and the business, and like, like you said, like the ethical decisions, the cultural decisions are so far removed from them. It's crazy to me that like they associate so heavily um,

Jeong: it's not worth it. I'm going to be, I'm going to be a little bit more up front than I was on the panel. Yeah, I, yeah, I threw it away like so long ago. um, it's like, uh, [00:13:00] um, honestly, like my parents have like accepted it because I've been doing it for so long now. She knows, um, like for me, like the whole status thing is like so broken and like so detrimental to one's, uh, like let's not even think about just, like, you know like uh, like ethics as like a, um, like a society based thing, but just even for myself, um, It's like so bad, like so unhealthy to like tie myself to like statuses or numbers. Um, so, uh, like I don't, so for me, like, I really dislike talking about, I guess, ironic that we're having this conversation but in [00:14:00] general settings, I uh, I really don't like talking about my job. uh, um, um, my sister and my mom complain, because I actually don't own like a single Harvard gear.

Actually, this is the current one that I have. It's is the only thing, but it's like a sports team jersey that I played on. So, um, yeah. And so like I have this rule, like when I meet new people, um, when I meet new people, um, I never asked or mentioned about job, school or age, because I feel like those, I feel like they're the biggest bias, uh, like they drive like the biggest biases in, in like new meetings.

So I try to like, hold those off for a long, long time, if possible, as long as they don't bring it up. [00:15:00] um, uh, and also just like in college, this might be a little extreme, but, um, yeah, I, I, I didn't look at my grades in college. um, so I think halfway through the first semester in college, I was already like developing this idea that, that like the grades are not very good ways to define myself.

Or like my GPA. um, and I've been like getting the confirmation from all these adults, um, people who like recently graduated who are like yeah, "like once you get to the real world, like, no one even cares. You'll never even remember. Well, you might be the only person who remembers." um, and like I was taking that to heart.

I personally find it like very [00:16:00] important to, I try to weigh like others people's experiences like as importantly as mine. Um, it's normal human behavior to like weigh your own experience much more heavily. But I try like, not do that as much. Like if other people consistently feel that way, then like there's a lot of value with that.

Um, more value than like how I instinctively feel about it. So, um, so I try to listen to that. And then eventually what I decided was that, um, I'll just never looked at a single grade. um, so like whether it was tests or homework GPA, like I graduated without knowing, um, I never looked at it and didn't put it on my resume.

Um, uh, And honestly, that was like a very, very, very big shifting point for me in terms of like academic and professional career. [00:17:00] um, like, yeah, like, I, it was so much easier for me to like put things down too, for more important things. um, like once I started dissociating from the numbers, it was like, oh, "My friend needs help with something" like something like, oh, like a medium sized problem.

uh, and like I have homework to do. um, but I was never going to see the numbers for my homework anyways. So in college it was so much easier for me to be like, oh yeah, "I'll just like, not do like the last two problems of my homework and go help my friend, which, you know, like if you ask, everyone knows that like, oh yeah like helping your friend is more important than like the two problems on your homework. But when you're in the thick of things as a college student, it's not so, uh, simple to make that decision probably. Yeah, [00:18:00]

Jeong: Yeah. um, all right. So the first question, uh, sorry, what was the first one? Oh yeah, what do I tie myself to? um, yeah, the two questions are a little connected for me. um, for me, my biggest value that I just feel something that drives me like very innately is having a positive impact primarily on the people around me. um, yeah. For the bigger community, yes, but, um, [00:20:00] like, you know, I, I care and like take, take part, uh, but like, you know, just like being very honest with myself, like people that I can see and people I interact with, um, for me, I really love spending, um, whether it's the time or the money or, um, just like the emotional space.

Um, you know, I think like I was very lucky to be born with kind of like a positivity, like an affinity towards like positivity. So I always feel, I always felt like I had more emotional space, um, than like some other people around me. And, um, and like, if they needed to like take some load onto me, like that was like okay with me.[00:21:00] Um, and for me, that's like always the biggest driver of how I'm doing like.

When I am trying to like, help someone like get a job or I'm trying to, like, uh, like when other people need to, like, I don't know, something simple as like they need to like move in and like move boxes or stuff, or they need to just like, talk about some things, uh, like how available can I be? How, like, um, how engaged can I be?

Um, so that's like kind of like the external way I evaluate myself. And more internally, um, uh, uh, I always say like, my dream is just like, to just do my hobbies. And [00:22:00] I don't know if this is gonna make any sense. It might feel a little meta, but like my dream is to always do my hobby. But I only have one hobby which is having hobbies. But, um, yeah, so I was just making a point that like, I wasn't like fixated or like invested on like, just one thing.

Like I just define hobby as like something that makes me happier at a certain time when I'm doing it. Right. um, so. You know, I try not to fall into the idea of like oh, like I invested in this, therefore, like it means something. No, for me,it's just like, I, it means something when it means something. It doesn't have to be like so deep. So like for me, like, I will invest like, like six months a year into like trying to get better or like, whatever.

Um, and then one [00:23:00] morning I can wake up and not feel the same way. And then, that's fine. Like, let's just drop it. Do something else. um, so that's kind of like internally how I evaluate my self-worth in terms of like like how much am I enjoying what I'm doing day to day, um, which is surprisingly hard to execute also because it's like sometimes I do find myself doing things that I'm like ugh, like I'm sick of doing it, or like, I'm like, ugh. uh, because like enforcing change in your life is a little hard. So even with like things as like hobbies, it might be as silly as like playing video games, playing a certain sport. If you just do the same thing for awhile, you just like habitually go back to those things and you might not even enjoy it that much anymore.

Um, so. Very non career driven things. I think people end up doing the same, like with their job, like, [00:24:00] they just can't quit just because they've been there for so long. um, so I try to like self-check myself and kind of ask. Like, I might be playing a video game and I'm like, wait, I have to ask myself, stop for a second and be like, am I having fun playing this video game?

uh, if not, like I should just turn it off and play something else or I don't know. I'm just kind of like always keeping myself in check. um, uh, and then to answer your second question, um, um, goes back to my external evaluation of myself having a positive impact. uh, I used to be a little bit more selfish, I think, um, just until like maybe like four or five years ago.

Um, I was really starting to develop like the philosophies that I talked about. um, for me, it was like earlier on, it was like, like, I was [00:25:00] confident that it's working for me. um, and to this day I am confident that it's working for me and I feel good about them. um, but I think I had a tendency to think that like, it's the same for others.

Um, or I was like playing this kind of like mindset of like like "they haven't seen it yet." Um, So I was doing a thing where I was like um, like if other people were living life focused on something very different from me, I'm like, "that's just not the way." Like that's just the mindset I had. um, but now I approach it very differently.

Um, I'm starting to, for like the last several years I've come to the realization that the only way I was able to kind of like get to this point and like my state of being was [00:26:00] that, like, I just have to ask myself questions all the time on why I was doing things. Um, like, do I really like it? Do I hate it?

Just questioning. Um, and I realized like the conclusions that came after it didn't really matter too much. Um, so when I talk to like my close friends that I care about, I wouldn't like enforce it on strangers, but like when I talked to my close friends and they're like struggling with something, or they like want to like change something or like whatever, for me, like I just gear it towards asking them like okay, like, like "why do you want to do it?"

Like, are you actually like, feeling happy about it? Like um, I just want the people around me to just be more critical of like their own decisions and be like um, like really look inside on like, why something [00:27:00] is making you feel a certain way. Um, because tons of my friends, like who are so like terrific, like after college are like slowly becoming like really burnt out or realizing that they don't have like a clear direction.

uh, and I would just love to see my friends, like ask themselves like more frequently instead of just like being driven by like the path that's already paved or something. um, uh, that being said, I also come to the realization that when they asked those questions, people arrive at very different places sometimes from me.

Like they might do the due diligence and still find that succeeding in their career, is something very important or like making a certain amount of money still is a very important thing to them after they've had like an honest conversation with themselves. And if that's the case, [00:28:00] uh, then tying that to me and wanting to have a positive impact, uh, I still think it makes sense for me to try to help other people get closer to what they find is important, given that I have the resources to help them reach, reach there. Like, even though I don't want to be where they, where they are trying to head towards. Um, so yeah, like I'm just trying to, in the last, last several years, I'm trying to recognize that like, things that are not innately important to me are innately important to other people.

Um, and. um, if I find those people to be important, then I don't need to find those things important, but I need to understand that they are important, um, in other, and therefore like indirectly important to me.